Xena – The Subtext FAQ for alt.tv.xena
NOTE: Because of excessive abusive behavior such as flaming and spamming, Xenite.Org no longer endorses participation in the news groups. These FAQ documents are not being updated and are only being maintained for historical purposes. Xenite.Org operates moderated, volunteer fan forums at SF-FANDOM where a variety of viewpoints and experiences are welcomed and respected.
Created by the ATX Subtexters; compiled by Erin (erin@cts.com) Version 1.08 (Updated 01/07/1998) Editor's Notes: I must admit to having been delinquent in my duties to the FAQ, considering that it hasn't been updated in about four months. During that time, I've received some "favorite subtext moments" from people about the new episodes, so I've tried updating that as well as I could. If you sent me a subtext moment that I haven't included, please re-send it. Dedication: This FAQ is dedicated to the "Xena: Warrior Princess" cast and crew for giving us such a wonderful show to obsess over, and all those subtexters out there who never lost the faith.
Part I: Overview
Q1. Why do we need a subtext FAQ, anyway? A1. Give yourself one point if any of these sound familiar to you:
“All this subtext crap is pure bull. Xena’s no
lesbian.”
“Why do people assume that strong women have to be
lesbians?”
“You people are just fixated on Xena’s sex life.
Why don’t you get a life of your own?”
“Xena’s just a fictional character! She can’t be
gay.”
Sound familiar? These type of posts pop up on alt.tv.xena every week, leading to numerous threads, flames, and insults. The whole point behind subtext is to allow people to enjoy the show in whatever way *they* want to. If this means they prefer to view Xena and Gabrielle as sisters, that's great; if it means they prefer to see Xena and Gabrielle in a same-sex relationship, that's great too. The Cast and Crew of "Xena:WP" have stated repeatedly that subtext exists, and that people are free to interpret it as they choose. The reason the FAQ exists is to prove that. The purpose of this FAQ is:
- To provide evidence that subtext is real and intentional, through interviews with the cast and crew of “Xena: Warrior Princess.”
- To provide examples of subtext as it has appeared in the “Xena” tv series.
- To give resources and links to further information on subtext.
Q2. What is "subtext"? A2. "Subtext" is generally defined as a subtle, underlying theme. Subtext is not something that is stated outright, but is identified by hints and clues. Q3. What is "lesbian subtext"? A3. In the world of Xena fandom, "lesbian subtext" refers specifically to the romantic innuendo between Xena and Gabrielle. People tend to differ when it comes to identifying instances of such innuendo, and what they mean; this sometimes leads to arguments on alt.tv.xena. Q4. Does "lesbian subtext" really exist, or is it all in people's imaginations? A4. There are really two issues here: the existence of subtext and the interpretation of subtext. When it comes to the existence of subtext, many members of the cast and crew have come out (so to speak) and flatly stated in interviews that they put subtextual scenes and dialogue in the shows intentionally. When it comes to interpretation of what the subtext means, there is generally enough doubt left by the cast and crew of "Xena" so that people may interpret Xena and Gabrielle's relationship as being either close friendship or romantic love. There is little room for doubt that subtext exists; what it means, however, is left open to personal interpretation.
Part II: Evidence & Interviews
Q5. What proof is there of the existence of subtext? What are these interviews you mentioned? A5. Here are excerpts from various interviews (arranged by interviewee): Liz Friedman (Producer): ource: The Advocate Date: August 20, 1996 Title: "Flirting With Xena" pages 81-83 Author: Anne Stockwell
But despite these disclaimers–and despite hints of a future male love interest for the warrior princess–Friedman and company have welcomed Xena’s lesbian fans, even writing sapphic double entendres into scripts. “One episode starts with the camera looking at some bushes,” Friedman explains. “We hear Gabrielle asking, ‘How was that?’ Xena answers, ‘Very nice!’ Gabrielle says, ‘Really? I wasn’t sure,” and Xena replies, ‘No, no, you’re doing great.’ Then we see them, And they’re fishing–naked!”
“They’re such a perfect little butch-femme couple,” Friedman concludes, laughing. “What they do between episodes, I don’t know.” …
On the work front Friedman promises that Xena's lesbian fans can look forward to lots of gal-pal action in stories to come. "We've already shot one episode," she offers, "where Gabrielle almost dies and Xena gives her mouth-to- mouth resuscitation. Lucy did an unbelievably great job with the scene."
Source: "One in Ten", a lesbian and gay radio program from Boston Date: October 1996
MARY BRESSLOUR — I’m Mary Bresslour (spelling?) and this is One in Ten, along with Keith Orr (spelling?). The chat rooms have been buzzing for months now. The cult television hit, Xena: Warrior Princess, has lots of fans estatic over fearless heroine Xena and her red-headed companion, Gabrielle, and the twist is that the producers also seem to be consciously using the pair to cultivate a bit of a lesbian following.
… talking about Xena and Gabrielle… KEITH — How do the actors feel about the sort of gay twist to their characters? LIZ — I think they really like it. They get a real kick out of it. Lucy thinks it’s great and I think Renee does also.
Source: Entertainment Weekly, Date: March 7, 1997 Title: "Xenaphilia" pages 38-42. Author: Mike Flaherty
Though the character of Xena is regularly shown in the intimate company of men, sexual ambiguity is a mainstay of the show–which openly gay Xena producer Liz Friedman is all too happy to admit: “I don’t have any interest in saying they’re heterosexuals. That’s just bulls—, and no fun, either.”
Source: Knight-Ridder newspapers Author: Jennifer Weiner Date: January 31, 1996
“All I can say about that [subtext],” says (Co-Producer, Rob) Tapert, “is that Gabrielle satisfies her every whim.”
Source: Ms. Magazine. Special Anniversary Issue Date: July/August 1996. Vol. VII, No. 1. Title: "Xena: She's Big, Tall, Strong--and Popular" Author: Donna Minkowitz
In our interview, Tapert spontaneously brings up the possibility that Xena also has love relationships with women. “People ask me frequently about Xena’s sexual orientation,” he informs me, “especially about her relationship with Gabrielle. I tell them that she has had a string of lovers in her life and that now she is trying to get control of her emotions.” It’s hard to imagine a more ambiguous statement, but it’s certainly not an utter denial. Indeed, Tapert proudly tells me that the show “has become a favorite with gay women” and that some lesbian bars have special Xena viewing nights. (So do a number of women’s prisons.) “Early on, the studio came down on me, because they wanted to make sure no one perceived Xena and Gabrielle as lesbians,” the producer says. He doesn’t seem to be trying very hard to accede to their demands.
Title: The Xena-Philes: TV's Warrior Princess draws a mighty following Author: Tom Goodman
“I think the gay thing is there,” Tapert says. “Certainly there is a belief that Xena and Gabrielle are having sexual relations.”
He's not kidding about that. The internet is filled with rambling about Xena's double-entendres and longing looks. When she gave Gabrielle a simple kiss, the whole system almost crashed. If Gabrielle takes off Xena's warrior boots - forget it. It's Topic A for days.
Source: August "Whoosh!" #11 Title: "TYDUS INTERVIEWS HIMSELF: RESPONSE TO LAST MONTH'S EDITIORIAL AND THEN SOME" Author: Steven L. Sears
Q: Have you ever been guilty of pushing the subtext for the sake of the audience?
A: Yes. Aside from the fact that *I* like it, I think that it adds to the characters. And, also, it doesn’t diverge from my interpretations of who Xena and Gabrielle are or what their relationship is.
[FAQ Editor’s Note: This interview can be found at: http://www.whoosh.org/issue11/sears.html . I would encourage everyone to go and read this interview, so as to determine for yourselves whether this quote was taken “out-of-context.”]
Source: August "Whoosh!" #11 Title: An Interview with Michael Levine Author: Bret Ryan Rudnick [About "Altared States": ]
LEVINE: When I got the script for ALTARED STATES (#19) I read the first scene, and it called for Xena and Gabrielle to be in the water. They’re doing the double entendre and they’re fishing.
RUDNICK: A classic subtext moment.
LEVINE: Yes, a classic subtext moment.
[About "The Quest": ]
LEVINE: Then we did the kiss scene.
RUDNICK: Another infamous moment in subtext history.
LEVINE: (laughs) I kept thinking “How am I going to do this?” How can I shoot this where they lean in and you think they’re kissing but they’re not…There’s also a thing that never got shot because it was taken out in the rewrite stage. It was in, it was out, it was in, it was out, this went on up until almost the last day. What it was, instead of Gabrielle taking the ambrosia and placing it in Xena’s mouth with her hand, the original script had Gabrielle put the ambrosia on her lips and kiss Xena. Lucy and Renee were all for it. They said “Sure, no problem.”
Q6. So, are the producers saying that Xena and Gabrielle have to be gay? A6. No, and you wouldn't find many subtexters out there who would argue that either. The whole point behind subtext is that people can enjoy the show *however they wish*, without having someone tell them that they're wrong, or reading things into the show that aren't there. The following quotes support the "neutral stance" of the cast and crew:
Source: The Advocate Date: August 20, 1996 Title: "Flirting With Xena" pages 81-83 Author: Anne Stockwell
For Friedman, all this adulation reflects a sad vacuum on traditional television. “The reaction to Xena shows how few substantive portrayals of women’s friendships we see on TV,” she observes. “In terms of what’s explicitly presented, Xena and Gabrielle are very close friends who, I do believe, love each other, whether or not there’s a degree of sexual intimacy.”
Source: "One in Ten", a lesbian and gay radio program from Boston Date: October 1996
MARY — It’s kind of like a great female Butch Cassady and the Sundance Kid.
LIZ — Yeah. They’re just a terrific pairing. My take on it is what Xena and Gabrielle do in between episodes, I don’t actually know.
MARY — Hey, don’t ask, don’t tell. Right?
LIZ — (laughing) Yes.
MARY — But that must be some of the fun off it, too, which is their relationship can really be anything to any viewer in many ways. And you have some fun with this. Let’s be honest.
LIZ — Absolutely, oh absolutely! That’s one of the best parts of the job, getting to throw in references that I know the fans who are interested in that will pick up on, but don’t necessarily flash any irrevocable red lights. We opened up a show with the two of them fishing naked and we’re about to have a Halloween episode that will certainly have some nice moments for our queer fans, a little lesbian vampire show.
Title: The Xena-Philes: TV's Warrior Princess draws a mighty following Author: Tom Goodman
Tapert only laughs, saying such instances are “us being very bad.” That’s because the word came down early not to make the characters outright lesbians. “Advertisers don’t like that,” he says. But being coy has certainly kept the interest up. “We blurred the lines,” Tapert says.
Source: Knight-Ridder newspapers Author: Jennifer Weiner Date: January 31, 1996
“And, um, what exactly is up with Xena and Gabrielle? The relationship between big, strong silent Xena, and small bubbly blond Gabrielle (played by Renee O’Connor) have made the show a favorite with gays and lesbians with a taste for camp – that plus the fact that every time Gabrielle lands a boyfriend, he dies. When Lawless answers you can almost hear her smile across the Atlantic oceans, “Hmm,” she says “perhaps I should adopt the American euphemism, I will neither confirm nor deny.”
Source: Mr. Showbiz Interview with Lucy Lawless
Q: A lot of people like to speculate on the true nature of the relationship between Xena and Gabrielle. Does the fact that people like to read things into the show have an effect on your performance?
LL: Ah! You mean do we play up to it? What are you asking here? We do have fun with that aspect, but I never want to shove it down people’s throats because it can also be alienating and we don’t want to do that to any sector of our audience. But we don’t want to alienate our lesbian following. We love ’em all! We love ’em all equally, whether they’re on the edge or not.
Q: The reason I didn’t ask “Do you play up to it?” is because didn’t want to put words in your mouth.
LL: Well, that was my little Freudian slip there! We all–I think I can speak for some of the people who work on the show–we all like pushing the boundaries a little. We don’t want to make a bloody middle-of-the-road show. We’re not interested in watching those kind of shows. We try to make highest common denominator viewing. Not lowest, not middle. We want to make the highest.
Source: Post TV/Radio Title: Fallen star: Cult queen Lawless mends wounds at home Author: Joanne Ostrow
“We talk about it on set. We’re all aware of how different sectors of our audience perceive the show. If you’re talking about the lesbian element, we are aware and we’re not afraid of it. This is a love story between two people. What they do in their own time is none of our business.”
The producers promise a future episode will chronicle a day in the life of Xena and Gabrielle–“what happens between the fights,” Lawless said. “I’m looking forward to it. All audience members and speculation are welcome,” she said, “as long as people aren’t nutters, as long as they aren’t stalkers, you know.”
Source: New York Times Date: 08/31/97 Title: 'Yi Yi Yi Yi Yi!' Xena Takes on Broadway Author: Luisita Lopez Torregrosa
Unlike some other actresses, Ms. Lawless has no qualms about being seen in a bar like Meow Mix, or being associated with a lesbian following. She seems unfazed by the more or less constant speculation, on the Internet and in settings like Meow Mix, about the relationship between her character and Gabrielle. Whatever their sexual bond, their fondness for one another is the heart of the show.
“The relationship should transcend all of that,” Ms. Lawless said about the question of their sexuality. “It is about love, and sexuality is certainly a small part of love. We don’t want to be definitive about it. It’s one of those things, neither confirming nor denying. We like our audience to make up their own mind. You know, everybody enjoys it from their own point of view, and that is fine with me.”
Source: People Magazine Online Date: the week of July 13th Title: "DOUBLE JEOPARDY: As feisty Gabrielle, Renei O'Connor heats up" Authors: PETER CASTRO KIRSTEN WARNER in Auckland
“It was unintentional to begin with,” says O’Connor of the implied story line. “But the more lesbians started watching, and the more feedback we received from them, our characters started to develop a little more intimately. We have to keep it a family show, but the subtext is there.”
Part III: Subtext In “Xena”
Q7. So what are some examples of subtext in the show? A7. Most examples of subtext that have been written into the show are ambiguous, and can be interpreted by the audience as friendship, sisterly love, or romantic infatuation. Because of the nature of television, and the unique demographic audience that "Xena: WP" enjoys, writers must be very careful what scenes they include, and what boundaries they push. Some examples are fairly blatant (the hot tub scene in "A Day In the Life", for example) and some scenes are vague. The following examples are meant as homework assignments for the reader; watch them and decide for yourself (and keep in mind that this is, in no way, a comprehensive list, and is meant to be subjective).
- “A Day In the Life”:
- Gabrielle and Hower are discussing Xena’s odds of getting married. Gabrielle remarks that it isn’t likely, and says, “She likes what I do.”
- Xena and Gabrielle are discussing Hower’s romantic infatuation. Gabrielle remarks “Another one of them” is in love with Xena. Xena and Gabrielle try to think of a way to discourage people (men?) from being attracted to her.
- Xena and Gabrielle bathe together, naked, in a hot tub while scrubbing each other’s backs and playing “Where’s the soap?”
- Minya remarks to Xena, “The whip is mine. The frying pan is yours. Hower is mine! She’s yours [nodding at Gabrielle].”
- Gabrielle holds Xena’s breast while pulling herself off of the ground.
- At the end of the episode, Gabrielle looks at Xena adoringly, then kisses Xena on the cheek.
- Xena and Gabrielle sleeping side by side on the same bedroll.
- “A Neccessary Evil”:
- Callisto refers to Gabrielle as “Your precious little Gabrielle” when speaking to Xena.
- “The Quest”:
- Gabrielle tells Iolaus that she loved Xena.
- Xena, in possession of Autolycus’s body, kisses Gabrielle fully on the lips.
- Gabrielle places her head on Xena’s shoulder at the end of the episode, as well as having her arm around Xena’s waist throughout that dialogue.
- “Destiny”:
- Gabrielle’s speech at the end of the episode, in which she states that she loves Xena.
- “Here She Comes…Miss Amphipolis”:
- The look on Gabrielle’s face when Xena is kissed by “Miss Artiphys.”
- “The Giant Killer”:
- The moonlight scene when Xena and Gabrielle hold hands.
- “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun”:
- The scene where Gabrielle turns Xena into a Bacchae.
- “Return of Callisto”:
- The quick kiss goodbye between Gabrielle and Xena in the temple.
- “Callisto”:
- The campfire scene where Xena confesses to Gabrielle.
- “Altared States”:
- The opening scene where Xena and Gabrielle are fishing together, naked.
- Gabrielle looks at Xena and says, “You are beautiful!”
- Xena and Gabrielle climbing up each other out of the well; Xena comments, “Lovin’ every minute of it.”
- “A Fistful of Dinars”:
- Xena’s speech to Petracles warning him to stay away from Gabrielle.
- “Ulysses”
- The grief-stricken look on Gabrielle’s face when she overhears Ulysses and Xena discussing their feelings for one another.
- “The Price”
- Xena says to Gabrielle, “You don’t know how much I love…that.”
- “Been There, Done That”
- Joxer is looking at Xena’s neck, and remarks, “Is that a hickey?” Xena and Gabrielle both get very guilty looks.
- “The Debt, part 1”
- Xena rolls over in the middle of the night, and reaches over for Gabrielle in her sleep.
- “The Debt, part 2”
- Gabrielle tells Xena, “I love you, Xena”. Xena responds, “Love you too, Gabrielle.”
(Thanks to all who e-mailed me their favorite scenes. If there's a scene that is particularly subtextual, let me know and I'll include it in the FAQ.) Q8. But what about all of Xena's and Gabrielle's relationships with men? Surely they prove to you people that Xena and Gabrielle aren't lesbians. A8. There are really two ways of explaining these scenes within the bounds of subtext. One way is that Xena and Gabrielle are bisexual, and therefore attracted to both men and women. This argument is boosted by the quote from Rob Tapert in which he refers to Xena as having had a "string of lovers in her life" but he refuses to narrow it down to male or female, leaving the comment purposefully ambiguous. Having Xena and Gabrielle have male love interests doesn't preclude the possibility of a relationship between the two of them. The second explanation is that there are many lesbians who have had relationships with men in their past, before developing exclusive relationships with women. Some lesbians had been married for years before coming out, and therefore are unsurprised when they see men in Xena's past. One loyal subtexter put it thusly: "The only way to explain Xena's life history realistically, it seems to me, is to say, 'Yeah, at one point she did guys. Maybe she'll do guys again. But for now, it's clear Gabrielle gives her what she needs. More power to her.'" All this is a way of saying, yes, subtexters are aware that Xena and Gabrielle are often shown in the (romantic) company of men. But part of the fun of the show (for subtexters) is to see Xena and Gabrielle's relationship with each other. So while they know that there are romantic male interests in the show, it's far more entertaining for them to concentrate on the subtext. And that's what the show is all about, really. You got a problem wit' dat? :) Q9. Why do Xena and Gabrielle have to be perceived by subtexters as lesbians just because they're strong women? A9. They don't have to be perceived as lesbians simply because they're strong women, but their strength doesn't preclude them from being lesbian (or bisexual) either. That they are strong women is simply beside the point; I've never seen a subtexter argue that Xena and Gabrielle are strong, therefore they are lesbian. They argue instead that Xena and Gabrielle repeatedly share intimate and romantic moments on the show, and therefore they appear to them to have a lesbian relationship.
Part IV: Resources and Links
Q10. Where can I find more information about subtext, now that a whole new world has opened for me? A10. Many of the standard Xena mailing lists have discussions on subtext, in addition to the continuing discussions on alt.tv.xena. One mailing list in particular, the Xena Campfire Girls (which is not limited to women, by the way) is "subtext friendly", and all discussions of subtext are welcome there. For more information on the Campfire Girls, visit their web page (http://www.mindspring.com/~bkbragg/). Many alt.tv.xena subtexters frequent both the newsgroup and the Campfire Girls mailing list. There also exists an index of subtext related fan fiction, for those who like to read the fevered imaginations of talented, literary subtexters. :) The URL is: http://www.xenafiction.simplenet.com/ There is also a Web-based general subtext FAQ which can be found at http://xenite.simplenet.com/xena.htm for those who wish even more information. DAx's Obsession's Home Page is also very enjoyable from a subtextual point of view. It has lots of links, lesbian fan fiction, the Museum of Subtext, and the Subtext Forum! The URL is case sensitive, so type it in exactly as it appears here: http://www.obsession14.com/ For Subtexters who have access to America OnLine, there is a Pro-Subtext Xena Chat held on Sunday evenings at 11pm Eastern Time. It is held in the Community Conference Room at keyword: Chat onQ. The motto of the group is: "Queer Xena Chat: Where Subtext is the ONLY Text!" They also do a weekly mailing, which includies weblinks and other resources for queer fans of XWP. They also have a group "pass-along" fan-fic story. If you're interested in more information, send e-mail to OnQXena@aol.com. Q11. Who are the "alt.tv.xena subtexters"? A11. The atx subtexters are a group of bold men and women of all sexual preferences who believe fervently in the existence of subtext and discuss all evidence of said subtext ad nauseum. :) Then again, we're fans of the show, and everyone has to obsess about something, right? Q12. What is alt.tv.xena-subtext? A12. Alt.tv.xena-subtext is a newsgroup which is meant to be subtext-friendly, with fewer of the arguments which tend to be prevalent in alt.tv.xena (arguments which this FAQ is meant to largely address). Unfortunately, few Xenites populate the group, either through choice or inavailability. Whether it is a growing group or not remains to be seen. At the time of this writing, there are several stringent rules which govern posting in alt.tv.xena-subtext. If you're going to post in ATX-S, please read the FAQ for that group first, or you'll probably find out the hard way that apparently freedom of speech is not always assumed to be appropriate on the Internet. Note from the editor (erin@cts.com): This FAQ is a work in progress. I am always accepting suggestions and contributions. Although we all may disagree on subtext, there's one thing we never disagree on: Xena rocks!